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June 2015
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tortipede [userpic]

I recently came across the excellent-looking www.projethomere.com when I was looking for a decent online Modern Greek dictionary. I've tried opening two or three different texts on there (specifically, Volume 9 of the Dimitrakou dictionary) but all I get is a cute little drawing of a bicycle with two spinning "loading" discs for wheels, and the word "Typesetting". I've tried in different browsers, from different machines (Firefox for Ubuntu and Windows XP, Chromium for Ubuntu, IE for XP, Android phone); I've asked the website for help but, writing in French, gave them the impression I was trying to download the book rather than consult it online, resulting in help that wasn't actually helpful... I don't know if it could be that it requires a specific version of Flash, or needs me to have a Scribd account, or...

Just wondering if anybody else is/isn't able to access this impressive-looking site, and if anyone can suggest why I can't. Also, y'know, if it works after all -- it really does look very good indeed...

thisboywonders [userpic]

Hello all!

Currently, I'm in Germany and I was perusing the DVD section in my local Müller store when I came across something very interesting: the movie Ted, dubbed in the Bavarian ("boarisch") and Berlinerisch dialects.

Read more...Collapse )

It's definitely the first time I've ever seen it, but how common is this?
If/when it happens, what dialects are most common? What about Swiss German?

If you can list some movies that HAVE been dubbed into other dialects, I'd appreciate it.

archaicos [userpic]

It seems to me that in AmE the diphthong in cold, colt, hold, mold, sold & told is often (or always?) either too short or absent altogether unlike in words like rose, hope, poke, tone, boat and so on. The dictionaries that I have access to do not mark the audible difference I'm encountering.

Is this the effect of the following l/ld/lt sounds? Or is it something else? Is there more to it (e.g. somewhat similar "anomalies" neglected in dictionaries)?

rebecca2525 [userpic]

This is probably a long shot, but on the off chance that anyone here could help me with some Low German words... Any help, hints, thoughts etc appreciated, even if you're not sure yourself or it's not exactly the word I'm looking for, or maybe just an idea how to rephrase something.

naheliegend/offensichtlich - obvious (Adjektiv): t.B.: de ... Antwoort op en Fraag

unbeirrt/unbeeindruckt - obliviously/unflinchingly (Adverb)

selbstgefällig/selbstzufrieden - smugly (Adverb)

unpassend/ungelegen/ungünstig - inopportune/inconvenient (Adjektiv) t.B.: en ... Momang

Gepäckträger - luggage rack vun en Fohrrad. Packdreger? (Nedderlandsch heet dat packdrager.)

Fußballen - ball of the foot Oder wo seggt man dat, wenn een op sien ... op un dal wippt?

ansteckend - contagious (Adjektiv) t.B. en ... Lachen. Wenn een lacht un du ok lachen muttst.

leidenschaftlich - passionate (Adjektiv) en ... Kuss. Ik kunn algemeen mehr Adjektive för Küss bruken, de 'n beten wat rapper sünd.

ermutigt/angespornt - encouraged/incited (Adverb)

(crossposted to plattdeutsch)

di_glossia [userpic]

Today I read a rather disturbing thing on Twitter: a German mocking another German's English. When it was revealed that what was being mocked (which, by the way, was perfectly acceptable English) was in fact a quote from an American movie, the first German wrote "well he's american, counts as excuse...".

This example of dialect discrimination surprised me and made me wonder how extensive dialect discrimination is within English language learning. I've been subjected to dialect discrimination in my own learning, with Canadian French, Mexican and Puerto Rican Spanish, and Bavarian German all being looked down upon by my native speaker teachers, but, as a native English speaker with my English instruction all within the United States, do not know anything about English dialect discrimination in a learning setting.

So, my questions are: how common has dialect discrimination been in your English language learning? Where was your instructor from and what dialect did s/he discriminate against? Was a reason given for the discrimination?

Sage of Winds [userpic]

Okay! I have two things to ask about. We'll do the easier one first.

Questions!Collapse )

I'm not coherent today, so I'm sorry if my questions are difficult to understand. Let me know if you need clarification!

kamomil [userpic]

I read through this post http://linguaphiles.livejournal.com/5672802.html

and I was intrigued that many of you had never heard, or would never use "I'm done the homework".

How would you say that instead? "Done" is the first word that comes to mind. I might say "finished" to be emphatic, or as an alternate word if the person didn't understand.

I'm a native English speaker from Southwestern Ontario. If I step back for a moment, I think that sentence might need another word or two, "I'm done with my homework" but I might say "I'm done work" as well, when I'm finished at my job for the day.

I'm interested to hear what you think. Thanks!

ETA: I might also say "I'm done working". One of my parents is from Newfoundland, but I don't remember it being particular to Newfoundland or Ontario.

di_glossia [userpic]

I'm learning Norwegian, both nynorsk and bokmål, and would really like some suggestions for reference books on the history of the dialects as well as online dictionaries. I have three Norwegian friends, one of whom speaks nynorsk, but they mostly use Google Translate and TriTrans. Does anyone have a more comprehensive online dictionary for Norwegian, especially nynorsk?

I also have some questions about the two dialects and their mutual intelligibility. Google Translate recognizes nynorsk and bokmål when translating from Norwegian to English, but only offers up bokmål when translated the other way. Is there a general rule for the spelling differences? I noticed some differences (ikkje ikke, skjønar skjønner, eg jeg), but I'd like to know whether those are indicative of broad spelling differences or just apply to those words. What is the general opinion of nynorsk among bokmål speakers? I know nynorsk is in the minority, but do bokmål speakers look down on or resent nynorsk speakers? How different are the pronunciations between nynorsk and bokmål? I know this might be a very small group of people who know, but does Norwegian grammar more resemble English or German grammar?

Also, is there a Norwegian word for Ebonics/AAVE?

Bettina [userpic]

This is a fascinating project I've stumbled across. It's a series of interviews with 50 random Germans that the interview team met during their roadtrip that criss-crossed the country. David Lynch got involved because his son is one of the directors/editors.

What I've seen so far I've really enjoyed. People talk about their life, about how they feel about death and a possible afterlife, about life-changing events. There is a wide range of accents (anything from Mecklenburger Platt to Bavarian), ages and backgrounds. Some of it is quite touching.

To make following along easier, there are subtitles in English, accessible via a button on the bottom right of the video frame. I would say that bits of the subtitles are slightly dodgy - I certainly wouldn't translate 'Baeckergeselle' as 'assistant', but hey. They will certainly help you follow along if you are trying to get your ear in with some real, everyday spoken German. The backgrounds are as real as real can be, they just sat people on a folding chair wherever they met them and got them talking.

Plus, David Lynch. And his mad hair. Like, whoa. ;-)

Crossposted to my journal.

di_glossia [userpic]

I am interested in the usage of y’all in Ebonics/AAVE.


The other day, I said, completely without irony, “One of y’all gots to move,” meaning “One of you (pl.) needs to move”. Now, the area I grew up in is both in the South and home to a great many native Ebonics speakers, which makes it difficult to distinguish how much is standard usage and how much is borrowing between the dialects. What I want to know is: do Ebonics/AAVE speakers NOT in the American South use y’all as a plural? If yes, would you ever replace y’all with “you all”, “all of y’all”, “y’all all”, or “all y’all”? Have you ever used y’all to mean something other than a dual or plural you?

Please do not respond if you use y’all for primarily humorous or derogatory purposes. I’m interested solely in the actual communicative uses of the term.

galingale [userpic]

This article in the Copenhagen Post caught my eye because I spent 6 weeks in Denmark a few years ago -- specifically in Aalborg, Jutland.  (The lighthouse in my icon is in Jutland.) 
http://www.cphpost.dk/culture/culture/51361-in-the-cartoon-world-if-theyre-dumb-theyre-from-jutland.html

It talks about how movies generally use "standard" Danish for the hero/heroine, and dialect for the "dumb one" or the crazy side-kick.  This practice is certainly common in US movies too -- think of how often the goofball has a southern drawl or a heavy Bronx accent.  (One reason I enjoyed "Princess & the Frog" is that pretty much everyone had a non-standard accent...fun.) 

My French isn't really good enough to be sure, but it's an issue in French films too,right?  What about other cultures?


vethica [userpic]

Hey all. :) I'm writing a paper on dialects for my Japanese class, and I was wondering if any of you knew of some good resources in book form. Google, Amazon and my local library have all failed at turning up anything remotely useful (it may be that I'm using the wrong keywords). Of course, if you know a good website or other form of resource, those would be welcome too. Thanks in advance!

thaichicken [userpic]

Hello all,

A professor of mine today tripped over the word "err". She said she'd pronounced it like "air" all her life (sorry, I really can't do IPA yet), or like the first syllable of "error" but recently had been told it should be "er" or "ur" like warm-er or Sat-ur-day.

Is this a dialect thing? Growing up in Ohio / midwestern US I always heard "air" but now I live in Massachusetts. As always, do those of you from other English-speaking countries have thoughts on the matter?

Thanks!

Current Location: Boston
Current Mood: curiouscurious
warning: may contain nuts [userpic]

In the middle of chatting, my chat-partner went out and wrote: 'And it's not like you're sat betaing my chat messages'. {emphasis mine}

Now, this isn't an expression I've heard yet ever, the 'you're sat' -- and if I have, it was possibly used by my South African teacher. I think it means something like 'it's not like you're stuck doing X', only with the 'sit' lexeme. {be-verb + past participle + nominalised verb}

Where is this expression {both pattern and specifically 'sat'} common? Are there dialects where either the pattern or the example above are unaccepted?

The person who wrote the sentence grew up in England, and is currently living in Wales.

ETA: Neither 'betaing' not 'you're sat' are typos!

|Meduza|

graeco_celt [userpic]

Hi all, I have two totally unrelated questions for you.

My first query concerns Scottish English.

I have just finished watching a Glaswegian TV series from the early nineties and, having noticed a couple of things, am curious as to whether they are general Scottishisms or specifically Glaswegianisms.
My Da is from Glasgow but left almost forty years ago and got rid of his accent (and, I assume, other linguistic traits) for reasons I won't go into here. I didn't know my grandmother very well but I don't really remember her doing either of these things, whenever I spoke with her.

Okay, the first is the use of naedy.
I'm familiar enough with nae and even naebody (though pronounced more like naebiddy) but this is the first time I ever recall hearing it completely pronounced without the middle syllable at all. There isn't even, as far as I can hear, a glottal stop replacing it. Is this common?

The second thing is the use of 'how' in place of 'why'.
Examples:

"How d'ye always drink so much?" (Why do you always drink so much?")
"How no?" ("Why not?")

Now, I can see a reason for this because you could extend it and say "How is it that you always drink so much" or "How could it not be the case?"

The one that really interested me, though, was this:

"How d'ye not come along?"
("on Saturday" or "to see for yourself" or something - I forget exactly how the sentence ended)

The point is that what was being said was not a question, in this case, nor was it a comment on a habitual action. The character in question was making a suggestion to another character, about the future; "Why don't you come along?", which is performing a different function to the previous examples.

Anyway, I'd like to know how common these are and whether they're used all arouond Scotland or only in Glasgow. Any help (anecdotal or otherwise) appreciated.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second question - though it's actually more of a request for resources/information about any research that anyone knows of, that may have been done on the subject.

I was in Sri Lanka for three weeks, recently, and was blown away by the sheer amount of English that is still there. One thing I noticed is that Singhalese speakers (and I'm only comfortable commenting on Singhalese speakers because I met very few Tamils while I was there, so I can't really say much about their linguistic habits) insert a lot of English words into their conversations, even when they're speaking amongst themselves and not to a foreigner. It's logical enough, given Sri Lanka's history, but what interested me in particular was their choice of English words.

Most places you go now, there are elements of English being used - usually buzzwords or short greetings and exclamations (Hi! Cool! Okay! Let's go! Man! Alright! etc). But, in the little time I had to observe people, I was unable to see any logical pattern in the words that tended to be used in English.
At one point, for example, my friend (who is Sri Lankan) was asking our bus guide whether there was likely to be anywhere to stop so we could all go to the toilet, before we got to our next destination. The only English word she used in the whole sentence was 'toilet' and I ended up forgetting to ask her why. I mean, using words for things that didn't exist in Sri Lankan culture before the British invaded, for example, I can understand. That happens quite a bit, with the languages of colonized cultures, I think.
But 'toilet'?
Surely every culture must have some way of referencing that particular place because we all need to use it and always have! So I'm not sure.

I've come across what is, for me, an even odder example, though.
On our Sri Lankan Airlines flight, one of the movies being shown was Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi, a Bollywood film starring Shah Rukh Khan (side comment: brilliant film). There was frequent insertion of English words and sometimes entire phrases throughout the film and, once again, there were times where they were catchphrase type utterances but other times where it was just normal speech and there didn't appear to be any particular reason to have switched to English.

When I got home, I found and watched some interviews with Mr. Khan and a few other Bollywood actors and directors and many people seem to do it in real life as well.
I think, so far, he's the most extreme example of it, but it does seem to be quite common.
Below is a link to part of an interview he did (in Hindi, I assume) which contains several instances of this phenomenon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOxrbxbBwmk

As I said, if anyone can point me in the direction of any research that has been done on either Sri Lankan or Indian use of English, within the context of the native languages (any of them) of those countries, I'd be really grateful.


Sorry this got long!

Current Mood: curiouscurious

Hello all,

Would someone know of a resource which has lists of German texts (or even just small text samples thereof) categorised by their dialect and also by their time period?

What would be ideal would be e.g.

First dimension:

Modern German - Early Modern German - Middle German - Old German

Second dimension:
High German
Low German
Allemanic (e.g. Swiss, Swabian, Alsatian...)
Austro-Bavarian
Frankish
etc.

This would mean that a text could be categorised as e.g. Middle Low German, Modern Low German, Early Modern High German, Modern Alsatian, Old Alsatian, Old Saxon, Middle Saxon... I specifically don't want audio: it needs to be text. I really doubt such a thing exists, but I'd appreciate anything close! Cheers!

LOLIVER [userpic]

So I've been studying Portuguese at university for the last three semesters, where the dialect is pretty much strictly Brazilian and all of the instructors are Brazilian or only speak Brazilian Portuguese. However, my family is from Portugal, and that's where I'd be going when I go abroad to use my Portuguese more often. I know that the second person is virtually unused in Brazilian Portuguese, being largely replaced with você and vocês, but what I'd like to know is: what does European Portuguese do about the second person plural? Our textbook has the second person singular in all of its verb charts, but there is nothing about what European Portuguese does about the second person plural, and I can't seem to find a definitive answer on my own. I've been told by my Portuguese instructors here that the second person plural is archaic and no longer used; is this true in Portugal as well? I'm so confused!

Thanks in advance!

Paul Baptist [userpic]

A little Osaka-ben question! If you don't know how to read Japanese, just hover over the text for a transliteration.

As I recall, true Osaka-ben substitutes 〜へん for 〜ない (as opposed to Osaka-fied Tokyo-ben, which changes it to 〜ねぇ), however for a moment tonight I got stuck on what to do for ない on its own (e.g. 時間がない "I've got no time"). Using へん on its own sounds off, and I seem to recall hearing あらへん a couple times in that context, but I thought I'd check here and see if someone else knows for certain.

While we're on the subject, thought I'd also inquire as to how it came about. My best guess is that it evolved from 〜ません to 〜まへん, then shortening to simply 〜へん, but that's just a guess.

Thanks!

Current Mood: curiouscurious
thaichicken [userpic]

So for my English Composition class a few days ago, we were asked to read a series of essays and respond to them. There was one in particular I disliked, so my response was rather whiny and full of complaints. About halfway through, I wanted to point out that I realized how whiny I was being, so I had a sentence,

"I feel incredibly critical and cynical about this essay, but there are still more things that bother me."

I was talking to one of my friends about it, and he says it sounds wrong to him to say "feel critical" or to say "feel cynical about" something, but these phrases sound completely natural to me. Thoughts?

Current Location: Cleveland, OH
Current Mood: cheerfulcheerful
Current Music: raindrops
joye the obscured [userpic]

Greetings linguaphiles,
I'm hoping y'all can help me figure out where a particular aspect of my idiolect comes from.

Basically I do some nonstandard conjugation of certain verbs, to wit:
take -> took -> tooken
shake -> shook ->shooken
put -> put -> putten

For example, yesterday I was at the lakeside with my boyfriend, and I had changed into my swimsuit, but he was still wearing street clothes. I said "I feel weird being in my swimsuit with you wearing all that. You should have putten on your swimsuit."

Or, although I don't have a specific incident in mind, I will say something like "The garbage got tooken away already." Or "When he almost got hit by a car, he was really shooken up."

I used to be quite embarrassed by this way of talking, particularly because I'm the only one in my family who talks this way and they used to tease me saying I was a "little Dutchie". I tried my hardest to use standard English but I still slipped into it all the time. Nowadays I kind of like my accent because I feel it's unusual and maybe even a little cute. But I'd like to know if it's really Pennsylvania Dutch English.
Family background + location I grew up.Collapse )

I'd really like to know if this is indeed from PA Dutch English (or another accent) or if it was only myself as a child overgeneralizing from "break -> broke -> broken" and I just never grew out of it.

I have googled "it got tooken" and got 360 results, so I am not the only person who has ever said this, lol. :)

As long as I'm doing "diagnose my accent", my boyfriend (Western Canadian) teases me because I have an "intrusive l". Eg when I say "I saw it" or "drawing" there's a bit of an l sound. I don't know how to write this in IPA because to me when I say "drawing" and "drawling" they don't sound the same. Before my boyfriend pointed it out I never noticed that I had an "l" sound in there. I googled "intrusive l" and found an article saying that this is something common in southern Pennsylvania. Does anyone have access to this article, or know anything about "intrusive l"? I can probably see the article when I go back to university, but right now I don't think I can get at it.

Current Mood: curiouscurious
Jinx [userpic]

Hey folks,

I can't make head or tail of this poem:

mystery poem behind the cutCollapse )

At least, I think it's a poem because of the apparent stanzas. Some syllables almost remind me of certain German dialects, but I'm extraordinarily confused by the fact that most of the words begin with the letter "i."

Is there anyone out there who can solve this mystery?

ETA: Answered - wow, you guys are fast!

Current Music: Nie wieder Liebeslieder - Die Prinzen
Really Sort of Marvelous [userpic]

I have a few dialect questions for native speakers of English, partly because I'm considering working with different dialects for a paper and partly because I'm idly curious.

1. What dialect do you speak and/or what region/country are you from?

2. Does your dialect have negative concord (i.e. didn't do nothing to nobody working out to didn't do anything to anybody, and so on)?

3. Does it have aspectual markers (e.g. habitual be in African-American Vernacular English)?

4. What would you consider the most noticeable or striking features of your dialect (whether phonological, lexical, or grammatical)?

Of course, if you speak more than one, I'd love to know the answers for all of them.

Thanks in advance!

warning: may contain nuts [userpic]

Hello!

I'm wondering about some rather obscure difference in different dialects of English, mainly the difference between British and American {both standard} English. I'm not interested in the lexical differences at all, but rather the grammar of the dialects.

Most conversations about difference in English{es} are about vocab -- shouldn't it be time we change that? :)

{Might be x-posted to hp_britglish if I'm so inclined, later}

ETA: Phonology and morphology are A-okay as well!
ETA2: {x-posted to hp_britglish here}

|Meduza|

Bang Bang [userpic]

Last week when I was visiting family and trying to get cable for my new apartment, I called the company. I think the call center is somewhere in Georgia because of the accent of the people who answer, but who knows. Anyways, I was thrilled when, towards the end of the conversation, the helper used "may can" in a sentence, and when I was done on the phone I went jumping around the house shouting "I just heard the double modal construction! I just heard the double modal construction!"

Of course, then I had to explain to my family what the hell I was talking about.

Any similar "Aha! I've studied/read about this!" moments from the rest of you?


[EDIT]
It doesn't have to be linguistic-y or English.

Another example from me: hearing « ojala que...» on a Spanish soap opera.
[/EDIT]

The Tick [userpic]

Okay, this is an incredible long shot and I really doubt anyone is going to know the answer, but I'll never know if anyone does if I don't ask. So a few years ago I saw the movie The Fearless Vampire Killers (or rather, it was on in the room I was in while I was doing something else). At one point, the main characters go to visit some Rom to get information, and even though I was heavily focused on some assignment for another class and was listening to a Hindi song on my iPod, I realized that I could semi-understand the Romany that was being spoken without looking at the subtitles (nothing too fancy and I don't remember the words now, but I definitely got it at the time). Nothing too special, since I know that it's related to Hindi, but I was wondering first if anyone's seen the movie (it's up on YouTube, but for some reason I can't seem to find the part I'm talking about even though I know it exists) and if so if anyone either knew or had suggestions on how to find out what dialect the Rom in the movie use. My guess, based on Wiki, would be either Balkan or Carpathian Romany (and I'm leaning toward Carpathian because Stoker's Dracula lived in the Carpathians), but I'd really like to know for sure and apparently both are spoken in parts of Romania.

I will be forever grateful if anyone will tell me.

Current Mood: curiouscurious
Current Music: Tashan: Tashan Mein
Jinx [userpic]

Hi everybody!

I'm studying German, and I've recently fallen in love with this gorgeous song (in German) called "Claudia." When I was listening to it, at first I wasn't listening very close and I thought the singer just had a funny accent, but then I listened harder and realised that it's in some dialect. Would someone be kind enough to a) tell me what dialect it is, and b) make a rough translation into Hochdeutsch for me? I can understand most of it anyway, but some words like "jläuve" really confuse me. :)

Lyrics behind the cutCollapse )

Thank you very much!

EDIT: Wow, what speedy responses! Thanks, everybody! Silly of me not to realise it was Kölsch when I knew the band is from Köln - I'm just accustomed to all their songs being in Hochdeutsch. :)

Current Mood: mellowmellow
Squeak [userpic]

The post about 'Three Craws' got me nostalgic, and since there was a request for a recording of the song I went and found one. At the same time, I found recordings of some of my other favourite songs, so I'm posting them here for everybody's enjoyment!

Алина [userpic]

I just wanted to know how the accents stack up, where I have one, and how bad they are.
Can you tell, or rather hear, where I am really from?

Accents

Edit! I've recorded a single sentence in french, spanish, german, english, japanese, and croatian.

I am most interested in the Spanish response: what the accent sounds like, because I don't actually speak Spanish, and I know I have one. I wouldn't be surprised if I even have weird grammar or something. I just wonder if it's a really placable accent, the kind where you say, oh she is definately italian, no doubt about it, or the kind you can't recognize; it's just weird. Are busco and viven even correct? I don't know.

I wanted to do a Belrin and Bavarian accent too, but the tree sentence should be in real dialect like it was for Swabian, and I don't really speak any other dialect, I can only immitate the pronounciation of the words we have in common.

And I tried scottish and let me tell you, it was terrible. I love the scottish accent, and I would not have done it any jusitce.

So what about accents in general? If there are speech therapists for native speakers with impediments, couldn't a foreigner be trained to speak perfectly? I met a girl from Denmark who learned English in school and could speak with a perfect standard american accent. It was amazing.

I want to know if that is a taltent or something you can train like a sport.

Oh and because all of my languageness was so weird, here is the follow up for the german speakers: I called an Immobilienagentur (Real Estate Agency?) and asked for a tree...

Süäüüelläi [userpic]

Anyone know of any IPA descriptions of the Englishes spoken in North American movies from the 30s to the 50s?    Any leads or key words even would be useful... Or youtube videos from particularly poignant examples.   I can just listen, but detailed descriptions might be useful.  Any acting resources for speech accent learning available anywhere?

Thanks. :D

Louise [userpic]

I've been watching loads of Disney songs on youtube (don't judge me!) and there is generally a France French version and a Candian French version with different lyrics etc.

Why? Are the differences so huge?

Tags:

Could you help me by teaching couple of local phrases for general chatting in Portuguese and Spanish? I know the languages enough to have a somewhat decent general conversation, but in a lack of local/native way of speaking, I might miss/missunderstand some of the sentences, because not available in my books.
Can you help me to translate f.ex. sentences below in to common slang/dialect of some main cities/provences in Spain and Portuguese. Locations in Latin America are also welcome, of course!

Examples:
1) What's up mates, what are your plans for this evening?
2) We had a great/awesome/kicking party!
3) You rock! / You rule!
4) That's one hell of a ride (about an event)!
5) You must be joking!
6) He/She/It's the best ever!
7) I dig you/I respect you a lot.


These are of course only examples, please feel free to tell me some other ones I might never learn from books.

Thank you so very much!

The Woman Who Wanted It All [userpic]

Unfortunately, neither my husband nor most of the people on my friends page speak Spanish, and I'm dying to tell someone this story, so I thought I'd post it here. If you don't speak Spanish, carry on, carry on...

These are both from the introduction of the families on today's "¿Qué dice la gente?" The host's name is Marco, and the heads of the families are Winston and Rayssel (and on Rayssel's team was her husband, whose name I forget, but let's call him Juan).

Family 1 is from Honduras:
Marco: Así que ustedes son de Honduras y usan el voseo.
Winston: Y el tú también, los dos.
Marco: Pero ¿cuál es más íntimo? ¿El tú o el vos?
Winston: El vos.
Marco: Así que a un amigo muy bueno le dicen vos, y a un conocido tú.
Winston: Eso es.
Marco: Y ¿qué van a usar conmigo?
Winston: Como usted quiera.


Family 2: Rayssel is from Colombia, Juan is from Cuba.
Marco: ¿Dónde se conocieron?
Rayssel: En la escuela.
Marco: ¿En la high school?
Rayssel: No, en una clase de inglés, los dos estábamos recién llegados y estudiábamos inglés.
Marco: Así que ¿se conocieron en inglés? ¿Fue lo primero que él te dijo "Will you marry me"?
Juan: No, fue "what do you call the guagua?!"

explanation of #2Collapse )

Current Mood: amusedamused

I've noticed recently that certain friends from southern states use prepositions that differ from what I've grown up considering 'the norm' to use with certain sentences.
For example:
'Listening on the music' as opposed to 'listening to the music'
'Bragging on you' as opposed to 'bragging about you'

Is this just a... dialect thing that may not necessarily be grammatically correct? Is it correct and one is just used over the other by habit in certain places?

Any "southern" input appreciated. :P

Monument [userpic]

I'm working on localising a drawing program from US English into UK English. I thought I'd be pretty good at this because I'm a native speaker of UK English and I now live in the US. Now, one of the drawing tools in the toolbox, the one you use to delete stuff, is called "Eraser" in the American version. When I was a kid at school we used to call them "rubbers". Do you think that's a reasonable translation, or would it be best staying with "eraser"?

(I know "eraser" would be *understood*, but that's not the point: the whole of the US English version would probably be understood perfectly well by a UK user.)

Whodunnit? [userpic]

Just for fun this ...

If your language is one that is spoken in different varieties in various other countries than your own, is there any usage from one of the other versions that irrationally irritates you even though rationally you know that it's a perfectly valid usage in that country? (I know that is an inelegant way of phrasing the question, but I couldn't think of a better way of putting it in neutral terms)

I find the american tendency to turn things into verbs that have no business being verbs (so to speak) drives me mad for some reason everytime I read it, examples like "he critiqued the book" (especially when used to mean plain old criticising) and "I'm transtitioning to my new job" seem to be the ones that particularly get to me ;)

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peemonkey [userpic]

I've just joined this community fairly recently, and through it I've learned so much already.. we're so fortunate to have such a great resource at our fingertips!

Anyway, it's a bit late to be asking this, but I'm curious and I just thought of it so I thought I'd ask anyway. The phrase "gung hei fat choy", meaning (as I understand it, "happy new year" in some dialect of Chinese): which dialect is it, or is it the same in most/all of them (in particular Cantonese and Mandarin)? And how does it fit into the usual pronunciation guides?

Thanks in advance!

Current Mood: curiouscurious
Karim Khan [userpic]

Who|how do you decide whether a language 'qualifies' to be called a langauge in its own right or whether it's classified as a dialect of another.

I speak Sylheti, which is classified as a dialect of Bangla (Bengali), but I can't make head nor tail of the latter. I know a few people who speak standard Bangla too and they can't understand me either :D

So I'm just wondering why if two people can't understand each other - eventhough in a textbook they're classified as speaking the same language - why is that so?

Sylheti does share 70% lexicon (I swear it's not though - how scientific of me :P) with Bangla, but then again it also has it's own script, though it hasn't really been used since the 1960s.

shinidraco [userpic]

Does anyone know any audio resources on the different dialects of English?
Like audio clips of words in Standard American vs. RP vs. NZ English etc.

Barring audio resources some IPA transliterations would also be very useful.

I am specifically looking for RP, I speak Standard American so that's just for reference and I'm planning on moving to New Zealand so I'm interested in their unique pronunciations.

Current Mood: bouncybouncy
deathwokclan [userpic]

Hey, everyone. I'm looking for some good resources on the following topics:

1. Language and dialects of English (as closely related to socioeconomic status as possible)
2. Language and Power/Hierarchy
3. Chinese syntax

If anyone could point me in the direction of any articles, books, or resources, that would be awesome.

Rufio [userpic]

Time for my dumb question about English pronunciation. I didn't see this in the archives, so....

For English speakers, do you pronounce "route" as in [rut] (rhyming with boot) or [raut] (rhyming with bout)? Is the noun ("We took the scenic route.") different from the verb (used in network terms - router, routing, to route packets, etc)?

I'm from Arizona natively, and I pronounce it [rut] as the noun and [raut] as the verb. I've heard that it was a Southern US pronunciation (including Texas and Florida and the Deep South), or alternatively that it was a Western US pronunciation (including California, Oregon, and Washington probably), and yet another time that it was exclusively a Southwestern US pronunciation (including only Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and possibly Utah). It's in every single "Do you speak Yankee or Dixie?" test online, just about, but any statistical evidence I've actually been able to turn up is extremely inconclusive.

I'm also curious about where Brits fit into this, because I have no idea.

**Edited because I can't spell

Haz [userpic]

Does the Arabic spoken in Morocco and/or Algeria have a "g" sound as in the English word "great"? If so, which letter/s end up making that sound in the dialect?

A question for our experts of the Philippines:

The Ethnologue lists 171 living languages in the Philippines. Within those are two separate languages referred to as Tagalog and Filipino (or Pilipino). The latter is said to be an official language of the Philippines. It is characterised as being "based on Tagalog with the inclusion of terms from other regional languages".
I have, however, seen someone claim that Tagalog is the national language of the Philippines and that to say Filipino and Tagalog is the same thing, or rather that the two themselves are the same thing.

My question, therefore, is for a clarification: is there a distinction between the two? And if so, what is each one exactly? That is, is the Ethnologue fully reliable on this count?

My second question is: if they are indeed two languages/dialects/variants/whatyamachiama, how does one distinguish between the two? For example (in fact, this is what sparked the whole question), I have just received a book from the Philippines (Ang Munting Prinsipe, of course :)). What could I check for (or what could someone who knows the language(s) check for) in the book to determine which one it is? Or is one of them not really a written language usually, making the whole question seemingly redundant?

"I shake you warmly by the hand" and thank you in advance :)

[ETA - Also, just a thought: it would be nice to have a "Tagalog" or "Filipino languages" tag. Or would it start to mess up the tags if there are too many (that is, a separate one for too many languages)? And where would you classify Tagalog/Filipino otherwise?]

Current Mood: fullon my lunch break
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gin & kerosene [userpic]

It occurred to me today that major cities are often associated with unique accents, pronunciations, and/or dialects which are not necessarily the standard. 北京话 (Beijinghua), the language of Beijing, is known for it's strrong shrrr sound in Mandarin, and in American English the sounds and colloquialisms of New York, Boston, and really the entire East Coast, arguably the birthplace of American English, are not consideredthe standard. Why is this? I would assume that the national standard would be set in a nation's capital, largest city, and/or cultural hub. What are some other examples of "stanrard" variations not based on the big cities, and what are some examples where major cities do set the standard?

I feel I need to add a disclaimer that I am not trying to start an argument about what is the best pronunciation, but it is fair to say that there is a generally accepted standard pronunciation for most languages. There may be more than one (British and American English still share relatively equal standing) but there is usually some sort of standard, even if it it is not the pronunciation of the majority of native speakers.

Rrrrroberto [userpic]

I'm doing a linguistic study/analysis of Mexican "fresa" Spanish... Does anyone know any equivalent terms for "fresa" in other Hispanic cultures? If so, can you give me some examples of sus maneras de hablar y palabras específicas? (O también palabras fresas mexicanas, de varias partes de méxico... Conozco por lo general palabras de Guadalajara y esa parte del país).

Oh, nothing about strawberries por favor! Jaja..

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Double Entendre [userpic]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I would really appreciate it if you would fill out this poll. I'm a native Californian who just returned from a cross-country road trip, so now I'm curious just how prevalent the dialect differences actually are across America. Thanks!

Current Mood: curiouscurious
Current Music: Sasha // Involver
Kasak [userpic]

For a class of mine this summer, I have to write a paper discussing the pronunciation of the Spanish of northern Spain (exclusing the areas where Andaluzian Spanish is spoken). I was wondering if anyone here has any links to journals posted online, or maybe some recommendations for books written specifically on the subject. A lot of the stuff I'm finding is sort of basic, and I'd really like to find more than just overviews of the Castillian accent, and try to get some information on specific regional variations within northern and central Spain.

If anyone could point me in the right direction, it'd help me out a lot. Thanks!



Para una clase este verano tengo que escribir un ensayo sobre la pronuciación del español castellano (opuesto al español andaluz). ¿Tendrá alguien algunos vínculos a artículos copiados al internet, o algunas recomendaciones tal vez para libros escritos especificamente de este sujeto? Mucho de lo que hallo es muy básico, y me gustaría sacar más que repasos del accento castellano y tratar de hallar información con respecto a las variaciones dentro España del norte y las regiones centrales.

Alguna recomendación me ayudaría mucho. ¡Gracias!

Elbie the Tree-Hugger [userpic]

Hi all; I just created a community for the discussion of languages and dialects spoken in Canada: lingua_canada

Feel free to join. :)

(If community plugs are not welcome here, feel free to delete; I didn't see anything on the userinfo against it)

X-posted: linguaphiles, canadakicksass, canadianhistory

Arbutus [userpic]

Do you pronounce the word "vase":
(1) [vaz] (to rhyme with "Oz")
(2) [vejz] (to rhyme with, um, "telophase");
(3) [vejs] (to rhyme with "case"); or
(4) some other way?

Just out of curiosity, because an acquaintance brought it up. Information on the distribution of these three pronunciations would also be cool and appreciated.

EDIT: So apparently the "Oz" rhyme doesn't work everywhere. To clarify, the first one's "vahz." Same vowel as in "hot" in SAE. Same vowel as in "cars" or "large" in RP British. Same vowel as in "caught" or "chalk," if you don't live near NY or NJ and have fallen victim to the creeping menace of The Great ɔ/ɑ Merger. (Kidding, folks.) Hope that clears things up. =:)

People have been mentioning that 1 sounds snooty to them... I'm from NJ, and I use 1 and 2 interchangeably, but strangely enough, 2 is the one that sounds more snooty to my ears. 1 sounds more natural. And honestly, I'd never even heard of 3 until today!

Current Music: Johannes Brahms - String Quartet #2 in A Minor
Hịgh Ρląịns Dŗịftėŗ [userpic]

It's a long story for a short question:

The other evening, i happened to see the CSPAN2 broadcast of the Prime Minister's Question Time (sono geeka). One of the MPs who posed a question was from Northern Ireland: but he sounded more or less American. That's not the first time i've observed the similarity in accent and pronunciation.

Which leads me to the first question: why is it that his accent sounded American (or, rather, why do American accents sort of sound like Norther Irish accents)?

But that leads to the larger, real, question:
How did the American accent develop?

I'm not trying to be Americentric here--i've wondered this for years. Consider that a number of people in colonial America would have sounded like their English friends across the pond, but then consider the large number of other languages present at the same time.

So how the did the American accent develop? Is it just the evolution of pronunciations and slang of an isolated group? Or does it have its roots in the languages spoken during the colonial periods?

Let me add this too: i'm not thinking of specific regional dialects, but you can if you like. I know the Southern American vowel triangle is very similar to the British English vowel triangle for example. I suppose by "American Accent" i mean the general accepted pronunciations of words in the United States, which are often different from other English-speaking regions.

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