Samuel Ekeme N'Diba (ekeme_ndiba) wrote in linguaphiles,
  • Music: Νίκος Βέρτης — Πες το μου ξανά

Freak



What's the point in palatalizing velars in terminal position? Did they do that in Gaelic?
Tags: english dialects, irish
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  • 12 comments

embryomystic

February 3 2013, 06:32:24 UTC 3 months ago

They do it in Irish, yes. Present tense.

ekeme_ndiba

February 3 2013, 06:34:46 UTC 3 months ago

Present tense.

Is it really spoken in Dublin?!

agatharuncible

February 3 2013, 07:25:03 UTC 3 months ago

Yes.

This is an infographic I saw the other day: http://purrprinthom.tumblr.com/post/41890266309/arianas-easy-guide-to-irish-for-people-who-dont .

I may be wrong since I don't speak it or study it in any way, but it is still spoken (although English as a first language seems to predominate) and it is studied in schools. Not just in Dublin but elsewhere too. Wikipedia (I know it's not the most reliable source) has an article on the status of the language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_the_Irish_language.

silencegazer

February 3 2013, 07:59:49 UTC 3 months ago

There are several regions (called Gaeltachts) in Ireland, where Irish is spoken on a daily basis.

As for Dublin, you probably won't hear every day on a street, but it is taught in schools, and quite a lot of people understand it, even if they don't actively use it.
Situtaion with Irish language is difficult, but it's definitely not dead. :)

PS: I'm not a speaker, but an active learner.

embryomystic

February 3 2013, 18:47:59 UTC 3 months ago

Yes. I met plenty when I was there a few years ago. And even people who don't speak it all the time generally can, owing to the policies of the Irish school system.

farraige

February 3 2013, 12:47:51 UTC 3 months ago Edited:  February 3 2013, 12:48:13 UTC

a palatal coarticulation of velar plosives is a well-documented phenomenon for Hiberno-English, not only in codas but also in onsets (Bliss 1984 gives [kʲaɹ] car, [kʲat] cat). Additionally, there is an incipient tendency across a number of accents of British English to palatalise word-final coda /k/ following a front vowel. Over the last 15 years or so it has gained quite a momentum and can even be heard in RP speakers under 30.

ekeme_ndiba

February 3 2013, 17:19:20 UTC 3 months ago

to palatalise word-final coda /k/ following a front vowel

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation, now it makes sense.

jmkelly

February 3 2013, 18:42:42 UTC 3 months ago

I think in this case it's not so much Hiberno-anything--the singer is using a southern American accent, as pop singers often do. The strong palatalization is a way of getting the final consonants of "sneak freak" out clearly. As a singer, I've been taught to pay attention to such things; unvoiced stops of any kind in terminal position, like the final /k/ here, have no chance of being heard in the hall unless you overemphasize them, and palatalization is the easiest way to do that. (Speakers, particularly actors, have to deal with the same issue.)
Also, in this case, I think the singer is overpronouncing/palatalizing not just for clarity but as part of the vocal treatment--adding a kind of vocal percussion.

ekeme_ndiba

February 3 2013, 18:55:56 UTC 3 months ago

Huh, Dubliners say her accent is very typical for the Liberties, a city district she comes from (resemblance between Irish and some American accents isn't something unusual).

jmkelly

February 3 2013, 19:31:36 UTC 3 months ago

Interesting. I didn't know that. Can you tell whether she's using her native Liberties accent or what I'd call the "Elvis dialect" so often used in pop music?

ekeme_ndiba

February 3 2013, 19:45:46 UTC 3 months ago

Honestly, I can only refer to the locals' opinion since I can't rule out that she's imitating Elvis' accent as a rockabilly musician.

shamshir_tin

February 5 2013, 00:31:54 UTC 3 months ago

Except I liked Elvis.