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thisboywonders (thisboywonders) wrote in linguaphiles,
2012-10-13 00:28:00

Up for something/ Down for something... The same?

I was just thinking about this randomly today...

At least in American English, you can use the phrase "up for something" to express that you want to/ are willing to do something.
For example: "I'm up for going to the mall."/ "I'm up for it." (Though, you can't really say simply "I'm up.")

However, you can also say "down (for something)" and it has the same meaning!
For example:"I'm down for going to the movies."/ "I'm down."
It seems a touch slangier than the "up" phrases, but I think it's pretty interesting that the words are opposites and still convey the same meaning.

Is this a more common linguistic occurrence than I think?  Any other examples in English or other languages are welcome.

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  • 42 comments

stacyinthecity

October 13 2012, 04:30:26 UTC 7 months ago

Not exactly what you are looking for, but in english, you can chop a tree down and then chop it up. :)

sayga

October 13 2012, 04:51:48 UTC 7 months ago

Would you say "down for it"? I'd say "down with it." Unless it's "put me down for 2 tickets for next Friday."

Here's the opposite meanings thing that always gets me: shelled vs unshelled. Unshelled peanuts. Are they unshelled, and therefore still IN their shells, or are they un-shelled, and therefore have been separated from their shells? Same with shelled. These peanuts are shelled. Shelled could mean the action of shelling; removing the shells, or it could mean that they are as they grew: in a shell.

delightedly

October 13 2012, 04:54:40 UTC 7 months ago

I'd say "down for" as well as "down with", I think!

arrowwhiskers

7 months ago

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pickledginger

October 13 2012, 05:20:07 UTC 7 months ago

"Down with" is the vernacular with which I am familiar, as well.

A similar alignment of opposites can be seen in the use of both "hot" and its successor, "cool", to indicate trendy or fascinating or otherwise nifty or keen.

runa27

7 months ago

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elle_apprend

7 months ago

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elle_apprend

7 months ago

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muckefuck

October 13 2012, 04:52:32 UTC 7 months ago

My dad likes to say, "In English, a house burns up and house burns down, and a fat chance and a slim chance are the same thing." (I figure that must be a quote from someone, but I've got no clue who.)

di_glossia

October 13 2012, 05:00:04 UTC 7 months ago

Those seem to me to mean slightly different things. A house burning up and a house burning down certainly provide different visuals.

stormdog

7 months ago

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di_glossia

7 months ago

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daev

7 months ago

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dorsetgirl

7 months ago

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muckefuck

7 months ago

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orange_fell

7 months ago

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provencepuss

7 months ago

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stormdog

7 months ago

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muckefuck

7 months ago

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pseudohistorian

October 13 2012, 16:37:52 UTC 7 months ago

"Fat chance" vs "slim chance" was the example I was going to offer.

muckefuck

7 months ago

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runa27

October 15 2012, 08:33:21 UTC 7 months ago

As fun as that quote is, I have always, my entire life, heard the phrase "fat chance" as a sarcastic phrasing.

"She says he said he won't do it again..."

"Yeah, fat chance of THAT..."

So it's like it started out as an antonym, but because it's so fun to use sarcastically, it ended up meaning the same thing. ;)

di_glossia

October 13 2012, 04:58:55 UTC 7 months ago

You can say you're going "up/down/over to somewhere", such as "I'm going up/down/over to the grocery store" with no bearing on the height of the store relative to where you are. When this gets expanded to large areas, in my experience, up comes to represent north, down becomes south, and over becomes east or west, so it only works in small distances.

There's also the lovely "will you/won't you, can you/can't you" that English has, though there's a slight shade of difference in meaning there.

sorrowis_stupid

October 13 2012, 15:46:02 UTC 7 months ago

I always use up=north, down=south, etc. as well, but I've found that some of my friends in Colorado use "up" when referring to a place with even a slightly higher elevation. For example, my friends in Denver will say "I'm going up to Colorado Springs" (even though Colorado Springs is south of Denver) because it's at a higher elevation & next to the mountains, and "I'm going down to Fort Collins" (even though Fort Collins is north of Denver) because it's at a lower elevation. I kind of love it!

muckefuck

October 13 2012, 20:07:31 UTC 7 months ago

My boyfriend describes visiting the local business district as "going up to Clark Street/Andersonville", which I always find odd because from my perspective it's "down" (being further downtown than our neighbourhood).

runa27

October 15 2012, 08:39:38 UTC 7 months ago

I would warn against assuming it's ALWAYS going to be "down is south, up is north..." though.

I live in central Florida and have seen both of the following phrases: "down to Georgia" and "up to Miami".

Look at a map and you'll see it's rather that opposite of your usual experience!

Additionally, our "downtown" isn't south... it's east, towards the ocean. And yes, I have heard "down to downtown..." before, even when the person was SOUTH of the downtown district (well, southwest if we're being technical, but still).

I think it's a regional thing, to be honest, as I don't know anybody outside of Florida that would say Floridians would be "going down to Georgia". It may also be one of those things influenced by the individual though - I live further north in my town than I used to, YET, I still catch myself referring to my place of employment in terms of "up to" rather than "down to". And my parents live almost directly south of me, quite a ways, yet I always say "over" to their house...

Basically, I think we can agree that prepositions are confusing and occasionally arbitrary. :P

mamculuna

October 13 2012, 05:16:28 UTC 7 months ago

I'm sure I'm repeating but:

burn up
burn down

flammable
inflammable

runa27

October 15 2012, 08:51:22 UTC 7 months ago

The difference is that for some, the connotations of 'up for" and "down with" might be different, and apparently even the "burn up/burn down" thing is more complex than that...

... flammable and inflammable however, are very literally the same meaning. Which was always confusing to me as a kid, but it goes back to the version of "in" in "inflammable" NOT being the same as the "in" in say, "incomprehensible", but rather the same as the "en" in "engulfed". For that matter, it's very much the same as the "in" in "inflammation". Which, fun fact, has the same basic origin - "inflamed" tissue actually does generate heat, hence the terminology. Weirdly enough I learned this, of all things, from a zombie book, wherein they were describing the inflamed brain tissue of a vivisected zombie. Yes, really.

I have seen "inflammable" used only rarely though, compared to "flammable". I think nowadays people realize that people are easily confused and don't always know dictionary definitions of words, so they go with the version that is least likely to confuse, for safety's sake!


fencer_x

October 13 2012, 06:30:30 UTC 7 months ago Edited:  October 13 2012, 06:31:10 UTC

Something bad can both 'suck' and 'blow' at the same time :)

(and for something a little dirtier--sucking someone off and blowing them are the same thing :D)

akibare

October 13 2012, 19:24:25 UTC 7 months ago

Also tornadoes!! :D

I used to have a vacuum cleaner that was cheap and really underpowered, often I would find myself saying "this vacuum sucks - or wait, no, the problem is it DOESN'T suck..." in my household we love pointing out things like that so it made the chore a bit easier.

provencepuss

October 13 2012, 07:35:29 UTC 7 months ago

when I was a child & growing up in London (1955-1972) going 'down town' was taken to mean that you were not going to the acceptable parts of the city. Petula Clark's hit at the time 'Downtown' was a first indication for many of the differences in usage either side of the Atlantic. In US English 'downtown' is the part of the city where important things happen ( Downtown Los Angeles is the business centre of the city On the other hand Billy Joel sings of an 'uptown kind of woman' and he's a 'downtown guy'.

People came 'up' to the capital city (I lived there so I went 'up' to the centre of town) whether they lived to the north or south of it & went 'down' to the countryside - again with no regard to geography. when I lived in Norfolk we went 'up' to Norwich' although it was south of our part of the dark side of the moon...sorry....North Norfolk.; because it was the city and the seat of county government (the county town)

I suspect that this is no longer common usage - I can just hear militant northerners and Scots screaming that if they have to they go 'down' to London - but it was one example of how strange the usage can be.

You go up the road if it is towards the town and down the road if you are going away from the centre.

To return to your original usage question

Enrolling:
You sign up for something but you put your name down for membership. ex: I signed up for the trip to Brighton. BUT The Smythes put their son's name down for Eton as soon as he was born.

'Up for ...;'
I think this may come from the physical action; volunteers raise their hands or step 'up (front)' to be counted.

dorsetgirl

October 13 2012, 07:58:15 UTC 7 months ago

I'd say "I'm up for it", meaning I'm interested and ready to go.

If I say "I'm down for it" I mean I'm officially on the list and accepted as a participant.

provencepuss

October 13 2012, 08:08:27 UTC 7 months ago

;)

k0dama

October 13 2012, 14:51:22 UTC 7 months ago

I was thinking the "I'm down for it" was a meme-like use of the word "down" as in
"Put me down on that list of people who want to do something"
or the phrase "hands down" as in "He was hands down the best actor that episode"
The phrase "hands down" means that someone is so obviously the winner that
even if they don't try very hard to win that they will still be the clear winner.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hand

I think the "up" in "up for it" i the same up as in the expression "to stand up for someone"
up: to show alliance, to be in agreement.

runa27

October 15 2012, 09:00:11 UTC 7 months ago

I think it's more than that, the "up". I think "Up" has a connotation in many English dialects of sort of being proactive.

You are "up" for anything, "up" for more, "up" for a challenge, etc. You never see the phrase "down for a challenge", do you? I said this in another comment above, but I think it's a connotation of eagerness, either perky or defiant or both, compared to the "down for/down with" usage, which is more relaxed. "I'm down for that," and "I'm up for that", may technically mean the same thing, but they have a different feel to me. It's like the difference between saying "okay" and saying "hell yeah!" ;) Subtle, but there.

I wonder if it's as much to do with the plosive in "up" as anything else... plosives after all, are one of the more active phonemes! ;) Also, perhaps there's a reason I associated the also-plosive-including "perky" and "proactive", with "up"...

maju01

October 13 2012, 16:35:13 UTC 7 months ago

Then there's "it's up to you" or "it's down to you" which basically mean the same thing.

provencepuss

October 13 2012, 20:42:50 UTC 7 months ago

I would interpret 'it's up to you' as you have the choice OR you're the one who should/has to do it
'it's down to you' implies more responsibility to my ear.....
'it all comes down to you'...it's all concerned with you

runa27

7 months ago

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shizuku_san

October 13 2012, 22:25:59 UTC 7 months ago

What pops to mind for me, although it's not precisely what you're asking for, is:
"Yeah, no" and "No, yeah" can both mean either yes or no.

provencepuss

October 14 2012, 07:37:00 UTC 7 months ago

'yes, no , maybe.....'

'Oui mais non' (that one drives me nuts especially in a stupid yogurt commercial!)

shizuku_san

7 months ago

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runa27

7 months ago

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