Who is like El? Al2O3 ([info]satyadasa) wrote in [info]linguaphiles,

Etymology of German, deutsch, alemán, tedesco, etc.

German

Note: some of these forms specifically mean "the German language" (like Chinese, Japanese, and Hebrew), while others are all purpose adjectives.

The English word German comes from Latin germanus, germani "German," originally the name of a specific tribe. The name was eventually applied by the Romans to all Germans, and the name Germania was given to the land of the Germans. A possible etymology for this tribal name is "spear men" gari "spear" + mann "man." Other words that are related to the Latin/English term are Modern Hebrew גרמנית germanit, Hindi जरमन jarman, and Indonesian jerman.

German deutsch is from Old High German diutisg and Low German theodisc, meaning "of the people," which comes from an Indo-European root, teuta-, meaning "tribe" or "clan." This became tuath "people" in Old Irish and theod "people, nation in Old English."

The Italian tedesco comes from this root, as do the Swedish word tysk and the English word Dutch, which formerly was applied to all Germans, but gradually came to refer only to those Germanic people who inhabit what is now the Netherlands. In Dutch, German is duits. The medieval Dutch word diets, meaning "Dutch" has been replaced by nederlands, but was more recently used by nationalist-types (in Dutch and in Afrikaans) to refer to the "pan-Netherlandic culture" of the Netherlands, Belgium, and South Africa. East Asian words for German tend to derive from "deutsch" — Japanese ドイツ語 doitsugo, Korean 독어 dogŏ, Chinese 德语 deyu, and Vietnamese Đức. The English word Teuton(ic) is also ultimately derived from this root, and originally referred, in its Latin form, to a specific Germanic tribe from Jutland who migrated into southern Gaul and were defeated by a Roman army in 102 BCE, one of the earliest Roman encounters with an invading Germanic tribe.

Another major group of words for German is represented by allemand (French), alemán (Spanish), alemão (Portuguese), alemany (Catalan), alman (Turkish), Arabic and Farsi الماني almānī. These come from Latin alamanus, which refers to a specific Germanic tribe — the Alemanni. By late Roman times the Alemanni, a splinter group of the Suevi (who gave their name to Swabia), occupied territories on both sides of the Rhine (present day Alsace, Baden, and parts of Switzerland). The high German dialect spoken in this region is known as Alemannic (alemannisch in German). This is a case of a relatively narrow ethnic name being widened to refer to a large group. The name of this group literally means "all men" (alle Männer in modern German)

The words for "German" in Slavic languages — немец niemiets (Russian), niemiec (Polish), němec (Czech), nemac (Croatian), немец nemets (Bulgarian), німец (Ukrainian) — come from the common Slavic root nem, meaning "mute" (немой nemoi in Russian). This fits a common pattern of ethnonyms, by which a people who do not understand the language or cannot speak it well are named "mute" by the speakers of a language or group of more closely related languages. It originally applied to all non-Slavs, but the Germans were the non-Slavic people the Slavs had the most contact with, so the name stuck on them. The Hungarian word for German, német, is adopted from the Slavic root, as is the Romanian nemţesc.

In Finnish, Germany is Saksa after the Saxons.

Sources: André Cherpillod, Dictionnaire étymologique des noms géographiques, Various online dictionaries, Ask A Linguist Archives, [info]thirteenkiller, [info]apoivre, [info]rydel23, [info]lemur_man, [info]pne

Please let me know what I missed and what I screwed up :)
Edit 7 May 2003 19:11. Thanks to all who helped.

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  • 36 comments

[info]rydel23

May 7 2003, 01:29:56 UTC 9 years ago

Slavic

Thanks! Worth adding to memories. :)

Interestingly, in Slavic languages, it seems that all of them have the same root "niem" when it comes to refering to the "German language", but the name for the country "Germany" has two variants. Russians, Bulgarians and, I think, Serbs say "Germanija." But, for example, Czechs say "Nemecko", Polish say "Niemcy", Belarusans say "Niamieczczyna" (Нямеччына).

[info]satyadasa

May 7 2003, 15:43:59 UTC 9 years ago

Those Mute Germans

Do you know Germans familiar with the etymology who consider the usage of немец, et al. derogatory?

Anonymous

April 23 2009, 13:36:24 UTC 3 years ago

Re: Slavic

In Serbian Germany is Nemacka, likewise in Polish.

[info]apoivre

May 7 2003, 02:37:09 UTC 9 years ago

people of the word vs the mute

This fits a common pattern of ethnonyms, by which a people who do not understand the language or cannot speak it well are named "deaf" by the speakers of a language or group of more closely related languages.

First of all, nemoi is not deaf, it's mute, at least in Russian. It's worth noting that the Slavic-speaking people called themselves 'people of the word' – slovo in Russian, hence Slavic. And niemets originally referred to any Western foreigner. Later on the term stuck to Germans as they were the group of non-Slavic speaking Westerners we had most contact with.

[info]rydel23

May 7 2003, 07:05:15 UTC 9 years ago

Re: people of the word vs the mute

Good point. I missed that.

For example, [info]satyadasa:

Russian:
deaf: glukhoy (глухой)
mute: niemoy (немой)

Belarusan:
deaf: hłuchi (глухі)
mute: niamy (нямы)

[info]satyadasa

9 years ago

[info]tacente

May 7 2003, 04:21:13 UTC 9 years ago

Excellent! Beautiful, well-written research.

[info]rydel23: No, the Serbs also say Немачка.

Just one question: Allemagne means all men in which language? This sounds flaky.

[info]dasubergeek

May 7 2003, 06:43:39 UTC 9 years ago

In Germanic languages themselves, cf. "alle Männer".

[info]rydel23

May 7 2003, 07:01:16 UTC 9 years ago

Ok. Hvala.

[info]satyadasa

May 7 2003, 16:03:43 UTC 9 years ago

I looked at that with suspicion as well for a few moments. It being so close to the English actually tends to make English speakers more skeptical of the etymology. It was even more odd seeing it in my source in French as "du germ. alaman «tous les hommes», de ala «tout, tous», et man «homme»." Cherpillod, BTW, also says that the ala part could be from the Germanic name of the river Łyna, which is in what is now Poland and Kaliningrad Oblast.

[info]lemur_man

May 7 2003, 07:10:25 UTC 9 years ago

The Alemanni also gave their name to Lac Léman (Lake Geneva).

Also related to Deutsch is the Dutch word Diets, the name given to Dutch in the medieval era (and later to the rather dubious idea of a kind of pan-Netherlandic culture encompassing the Netherlands, Belgium and South Africa...).

[info]thirteenkiller

May 7 2003, 07:15:34 UTC 9 years ago

Probably just a typo, but the Chinese is 德语 rather than 德育. The first means German language, the second means moral education.

[info]satyadasa

May 7 2003, 16:06:10 UTC 9 years ago

Whoops, thanks. Shouldn't have trusted the input method of typing multiple-character words together.

[info]embryomystic

May 7 2003, 12:38:27 UTC 9 years ago

The Irish word for the language is Gearmáinis, the people are Gearmánach, and the country of Germany is An Ghearmáin. I don't know if that's because Britain is between them and the continent, or because of the long British occupation, but most of their words for countries and languages resemble the English ones (excepting, ironically enough, their words for the English language, Béarla, English as a descriptive adjective, Sasanach, and England, Sasana; those last two seem to come from the word Saxon).

I've read in a couple of different places (including the continental Celtic mailing list that I'm on) that the Teutons may have actually been Celtic, or Celticised Germans, anyway, because in Common Germanic, Indo-European Ts became dental affricates (or is it fricatives?), represented by th. In Common Celtic, however, they seem to have remained Ts, as in tuath.

[info]satyadasa

May 7 2003, 16:20:00 UTC 9 years ago

That reminds me, another good source for these is Google Language Tools. If you go to Google and change the language to Irish, then click on Uirlisí Teanga (I don't know Irsih but I just clicked until I was back to a Language Tools-like page) and there is a list of language names. This works for most of the languages Google supports, and that is a lot. Useful if you need to know that Gujarati in Irish is Gúisearáitis. Only two on the list stick out to me as not English; Welsh as Bretnais makes sense as the Welsh are "Britons," but Ioruais for Norwegian confuses me. Any insights?

[info]satyadasa

9 years ago

[info]bugtilaheh

9 years ago

[info]node_ue

8 years ago

[info]bugtilaheh

8 years ago

[info]satyadasa

8 years ago

[info]satyadasa

8 years ago

[info]pne

May 8 2003, 07:08:39 UTC 9 years ago

East Asian words for German tend to derive from "deutsch" — Japanese ドイツ語 doitsugo, Korean 독어 dogngŏ, Chinese 德语 deyu, and Vietnamese Đức.

Some comments.

I think the Korean is more like "dogŏ"; ᄋ is, as far as I know, not pronounced at the beginning of a syllable (it's more or less a placeholder for the initial consonant slot); it's syllable-ending ᆼ which is pronounced "ng" ([ŋ]). And I can imagine that the word is syllabified "do-gŏ" since from what I know, final consonants usually go over to the beginning of the next syllable if it starts with a vowel.

Japanese "doitsu" is sometimes (probably more frequently a couple of hundred years ago) written in kanji as 独逸, which have the convenient reading "do(ku)-itsu". I'm fairly sure that Koreans borrowed this name since they call the country 독일 "dogil", which is how those two characters would be read in Korean, and I think I've seen it written 獨逸 as well (which is the traditional form of the character). (I also would have thought Koreans call the language "dogirŏ", from "dogil" + "ŏ", but if you've head "dogŏ", then I'll believe you. I was just guessing so far.) I think I've also read somewhere that Japanese ドイツ doesn't come directly from German "deutsch" but from Dutch "duits", since the Japanese traded with a Dutch as their only European trade partner for quite a while.

Chinese use a different expansion; I believe that 德語 (or 德文) comes from 德意志 De2yi4zhi4, which is also from "deutsch". Though I imagine it's nearly always called 德國 rather than 德意志.

Finally, I can well imagine that Đức is the Sino-Vietnamese reading of the character 德; that is, that the Vietnamese borrowed the (short) name from the Chinese. (Or maybe even the long name as well; ISTR reading something like "Phap-lan-tay" alongside "Phap-quoc" for "France", from something like 法蘭西, which is where I think Chinese shortened 法(國) from.) Apologies for the lack of correct accents in the Vietnamese.

[info]satyadasa

May 8 2003, 10:01:39 UTC 9 years ago

Wow, thanks for all the insight. Perhaps a collection of etymologies this complex requires a tree structure as well as sentence structure, to better reflect theories like the derivation of ドイツ from duits and Đức from 德.

Hmm, I got 독어 from an online dictionary which says that it means "German (language)." In Korean-language Google language tools, the language is translated as 독일어 for the language. I need some more input on this from somewhere. FWIW, 독일어 has more hits on Google than 독어.

[info]topaz

May 10 2003, 12:41:08 UTC 9 years ago

wow, that's awesome. i take German in school, and i'd wondered.

[info]ugly_boy

May 10 2003, 15:50:46 UTC 9 years ago

Great, thank you very much!

[info]ugly_boy

May 11 2003, 20:02:16 UTC 9 years ago

Iran and Ireland

If you're interested, I found some information from Teach Yourself Sanskrit by Michael Coulson
[Sanskrit belongs to the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family]. The earliest Indo-Iranian speakers are conveniently known as Aryans, from the name which they gave themselves (Sanskrit ārya, Avestan airya—from the latter the modern name Iran is derived, while the name Éire, at the other end of the Indo-European spectrum, may also be cognate).

In case you were wondering, Éire is the native name for Ireland. Who'd've thought that the names for Iran and Ireland were related?! Any idea where the term «Persia» comes from?

[info]satyadasa

May 11 2003, 20:10:53 UTC 9 years ago

Re: Iran and Ireland

I may spell something wrong here, because I'm not bothering to double-check with any sources, but:

Persia. From Greek περσισ Persis, from Farsi فارس Fārs. Therefore "Farsi" and "Persian" have the same root. Fārs is an Iranian province (in the southwest) which has had (at least slightly) disproportionate influence over the last 2500 years on Iranian language and culture. Iran is generally seen as a more inclusive term than Persia.

[info]ugly_boy

May 11 2003, 21:02:49 UTC 9 years ago

Re: Iran and Ireland

Interesting, thank you.

[info]node_ue

August 13 2003, 00:08:38 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Iran and Ireland

اي ثنك ظتس بيكز برسيي رفرز تو جست ظء فارسي-سبيكنك برتس اب ظء كنتري، ويل ايرن رفرز تو ظء هل كنتري.

(نعوت: بليز فركف مي فر ريتنك انكلش ان اربك لعترز، بت فر سم ريزن اي كنت جينج ظء كيبرد لنكوج عون مي كمبيوتر... سدوبد ميكرو$فت!(؛)

[info]satyadasa

8 years ago

Anonymous

February 28 2004, 08:02:33 UTC 8 years ago

onomastic source of German

One scholar suggests the Germanii mentioned by Tacitus were so-called by the Romans to indicate "germanus" genuine. This was to distinguish them from other tribes migrating west from the Caucasus.

Some researchers see a connection between the Scythians and the Germanii. One Scythian tribe lived along the Gerros River, so its possible they were referred to as Gerrmanns (Germanii). Ironically there were two other Scythian tribes called the Her and Mann. Linguistic scholars believe there is a connection between German and the ancient Turkic language.

Tacitus mentions a tribe of Sarmatians living in Germany. The Sarmatians lived east of the Scythians in southern Russia. Tribal warfare between the two went on for centuries. The Sarmatians prevailed and pushed the Scythians west across the steppes of Russia and Poland. One tribe called the Alani were thought to be of Scythian origin. They became allies to the Vandals while in Gaul. Some scholars classify the Alani as one of the early German tribes.

Has anyone studied the onomastic source of the name German?

Anonymous

October 21 2009, 23:09:48 UTC 2 years ago

Re: onomastic source of German

Slavic people, people of the “word” (“slovo”), did not understand the language of the Germans, barbaric forestdwellers, therefore Germans were considered unintelligible because they made noises like a mute. The sound of mutes being a garble sound. “Garbling” in Ukrainian is “kharamaryty” and a person who garbles is a “kharaman” (a “german”). A Ukrainian “kh” oftens becomes a “g” in English, in which case a garbler would be a german. Thus German means a person who garbles. Even the word “garble” hints at “German”. I spent some time with a group of male Mennonites speaking low German. Their throaty speech sure sounded like a total garble.

Germans adore their garden pests – the gnomes. By folklore, gnomes do not speak. “gn” is “n” (as in foreign), thus gnome means a mute - “nimij” i.e. a nimets – a German. Another take would be to consider “gn” mutating into a simple “g”, then add the intrafix “r” and then suffix “n” and you have “german”.

[info]laurak6

October 20 2004, 17:53:16 UTC 7 years ago

I'm no expert on German etymology, but it occurred to me recently that the German words "Deutsch", "deutlich" (clear), and "Bedeutung" (meaning), likely have some etymological connection. Does anyone have any information or insight about this?
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